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Wednesday, March 16, 2016

Feelings over My Living Brother

My attempt at being Austin Stevens.
Its been a month or so since mother's death.  I don't remember anymore the date, I probably wrote it down here somewhere when it happened.  Not a single tear have I shed over it.  Not a party either, the day went by like any other day.  If I had to pick up milk, I picked up milk, if it was quilting day, I would have went to the group.  If it was time to do the laundry, I did the laundry.  I don't remember. It was just another day.

I'm wondering if my behaviour has appeared like I'm cold to the people on the outside here.  They brought it up briefly, then, it was gone, back to life.  It was not like I was having trouble coping, it was very normal.  I had no remorse.  I worry about my coldness at times, and I am needing to write about it.

The truth is, I don't even care.  I have not contacted my sister for the family pictures, my aunt has not called me about mother's life insurance, she assured me she will, so I'm not worried.  I do kinda worry that they have taken all the money, but too afraid to talk about it with them.

I told my husband this morning that I was scared of seeing my sister for the pictures, for I basically told her to "get lost" the last time I saw her.  He said that I did, and that I told my brother the same thing basically.

His mother's birthday was this week.  I made her a quilted tote bag, and we needed to bring it to her. We stopped at the store for a gift bag and a card.  I asked him to pick out a card and he picked out one that said, "From both of us."  I told him, "No, that is for two friends who get together and decide to gift someone."  Then he  smiled and picked up this beautiful card with roses on it, and more just a regular birthday card from one person or more.   I have to say that filling out the card was a very difficult thing.  When we got back to the truck, I opened the packaging of the card and got a pen and asked him to fill it out.  He told me to fill it out.  I asked him, "What do I say?"  He said to just put our names on it.  So I did.

When we got to her place, she was pleased by the quilting and the outside of the card and gave me a big hug.  I could feel my shoulders slump backwards.  She opened the card and spent a long time reading it, and I just needed her to put it down.  Then her brother called, and they spent a couple of minutes talking then proceeded with our visit.

At this point I remembered me telling my brother to get lost when he called me at the time of mother's death.  Then I just went on with what I was doing.  So yeah, I yelled at my brother then put the phone down and went on with normal things.  I think I was doing the laundry.  This is not outside of the notice of my husband who just sat there.  I could see his body shake a bit when I told my brother to get lost.  Then I witness what he is actually used to, his own elderly mother having a peaceful conversation with her brother.

Why does this look so weird to me.  An actual conversation with a family member but to him, this is normal and vice versa.  And why can't people just talk to eachother and give eachother gifts, why this hateful card thing?

I cried over my utter coldness, not over mother or my family.  But over my ability to even feel a thing about it.  I cried and prayed out loud to God to please help me.  I don't know what was going on with me.  Then with all things, I decided to wait.

We had our food bank meeting last night.  You know that malignant narcissist I told you about before that volunteers there?  Well, she decided to be very generous, and since we have a few money vouchers left, we should give them out first come first serve.  For Easter.  I told you of how I'm just letting my emotions take over and just learn to feel?  Well, I did it.  I don't know what happened.  This sound came out of my mouth and it said, "That sounds just horrible."  Without even thinking.  I don't know if I said the right thing.  Then others piped up and said it was wrong, "Either we give everyone one or no one."  I'm not even sure if it was from anything I said though, it was a purely emotional response from me, and my brain was shut off.  I wanted to just go with my emotions.  But everyone on our list is going to get a voucher for Easter.  And when I sat back and decided to think about it, this "first come, first serve" would have been horrible.  I can imagine the cut off point could be between two people who are friends who arrived together.  Or the most resourceful people would get the vouchers only, or the list goes on.  This would have been HORRIBLE.  As someone who has had to beg and fight for scraps my whole life, I knew this would be horrible.  Oh, no, no, no.  We have the money to give everyone a voucher, why would she even think of something like that.

I work continually on my emotions.  I don't know why I just can't stand my living brother.  Then it hit me suddenly.  He once hit me so hard in the face that I saw white stars.  This was normal in our family, but this one specific memory, I am keyed into right now.  I don't even remember my son hitting any of his sisters passed the age of ten.  He annoyed them completely, but everything was and is done in a state of complete acceptance and equality, even if they are mad at eachother.

I'll tell you what I mean.  I remember my brother hitting me and seeing the stars, but I remember more, the look on his face.  My last therapist taught me to explain a look instead of reacting to the fear of it.  He would half close his eyes.  then he would press them almost shut.  With his teeth clenched and his cheeks relaxed, no smile, no frown, nothing.  He said I was just a fucking bitch. Then he hit.  I bounced back, and I felt the room disappear, then I remember the screaming.  It was me screaming, trying to stay awake and ALIVE.  I was too scared to pass out, I fought myself conscience.  It seemed like everyone was in the room including my mother.  I remembered the argument at first, then she just turned her back and said she didn't want anything to do with it.  She said she tries too hard and if we can't get along it is not her fault.  Then I saw her smile?  I did see her smile and smirk.  Even after the hitting, while she was busy giving him a little shit over it, she was smirking.  She told him, "That's enough" with the freakiest look on her face.  But her eyes wide and staring down at me, sucking up the supply, it was like pure milk chocolate.

Do you want to know how the argument started?  I'll tell you.  His girlfriend went into my drawer and took and wore my sweater home.  I wanted it back.  This was the only sweater I had ever chosen for myself.  I don't know how I got to choose it for myself.  But I think it was because mother took me to a store to buy it and try it on.  It was not from the catalogue.  With salespeople watching, I got to choose the sweater.  It was funny mother never made me return it, guess she was just too lazy, and I hid the fact I loved the sweater.  I loved that sweater and never saw it again.  I tried to fight for it, but I couldn't.

So brother's girlfriend took and wore the sweater home.  I was angry.  I expressed that to him.  That's when the squinty eyes started and well, the rest of the story.  There was no equality between us.  Any time I got hit after that by a man, it was like I was set up for it by my brother.  Stupid brother.  His wife rules the roost, and he has yet to put on his big boy panties, and I can't figure that one out and I won't.

I was 15.  He was either 19 or 20, and well over the age of consent.  Well above the age of "knowing better".  I don't care about the triangulation.  I don't care about anything else.  In my emotions, it is placed where this "man" sits.  There is nothing that can be done about it, this is how I feel.  So when my brother called me and says he "misses me", he can go fuck off.  He has never visited me, and dodged any attempts of me visiting him.  It is final and it is done.  If I try to do anything, I would be doing it without authenticity, so that means its just bullshit.

Why can't I forget something that happened many decades ago?  Well, it wasn't just that particular incident, there were others, and that would make for a very long blog posting.  I am trying to remember other things from the others, what they did past the age of accountability.  I remember very serious things that would probably land the whole family in jail.

I really don't care about any of them.

I have to live a life now.  My children and husband.  I had a relationship issue the other day with him, long story.  Basically, when you are being authentic, sometimes its not always going to make them feel all peachy.  They get angry.  It was understandable.  It was all I could do to let it go till the next day, I just wanted to pick at the problem.  I wanted to tell him that he was the problem here not me, but I had to force myself to allow my feelings and respect his boundaries, and not blame him.  Still, after my expressing my emotions, and being vulnerable, I had to let it go till the next day.  Oh, no. Then after he went to bed, just forget about it, and not stew.  This was hard.  I have told my relationship guide about this before in the past, and all she says to me is "I know."  Or "uh huh, yes." That's it, that is all she says about it.

Or today it was my turn to bring the snack for our quilting guild.  No one ate anything while I was there.  Oh, no.  I wanted to pick at it, and try to get someone to eat.  Or feel horrible about it.  I just let it go.  I guess they just weren't hungry.  I didn't worry about it, I brought the snacks then no one ate, then I went home a few hours later, and we just leave the snacks.  It doesn't matter.

Or my oldest daughter and her ex tend to buy too much for the children.  You know, I can't buy any of her children a coloring book even.  It will simply fall into the pile of endless coloring books they already have.  And the kids don't even appreciate gifts anymore.  They have ten of everything.  I'm not saying she is teaching them to be narcissists, but well, seems like its going down that road.  We had a long talk about it and she is considering what I am saying.

One step at a time, one foot in front of another.  Mother who?  Brother and sister who?






74 comments:

  1. He was never a brother to you. Any guy willing to sock his sister unconscious didn't even that natural protection mechanism that a brother is supposed to have for an older sister. Don't worry mine didn't have it either. During my own cuss-a thon at him, it bugged me he was laughing at me telling him off, he didn't care. Mine was never there for me either. I used to fight my brother hard but then I remember being scared of him too. We were about the same size and it was a fair fight until we were older. {remember I had PCOS, masculinizing me and was mid sized} The narc mothers even take away what we deserved which is a brother defending us and standing up for us. Why was I so alone even when brother and sister were there in high school with me. A time came where they both ignored me in the halls like they didn't know me. I hung in there with my brother too long, his false promises, I'll come and visit you, was a lie, he had 7 years and I still remember when he was at my mother's house only an hour a way, and she told him he didn't have time to come here, and well he didn't. You deserved a big brother to look out for you. One thing I literally screamed at mine was "You never defended me or stood up for me either, interspersed with cuss words. I even pointed out my mother came to him during his heart surgery but no one cared when I was sick. He's chosen her over me and I am done. Mother who? Brother and sister who? It sums it all up. I cried over the aunt even for a few days but then got angry, and now I'm not crying anymore, where was she? Why did she close her door on me all the time and not answer letters or try from her end? There's no more tears for the rest of them so don't feel bad about people judging you as being "cold". Yeah your brother should have been put in jail. Since your mother basically almost watched him kill you and watched and didn't do diddly squat but smirk, that tells you everything you need to know. I sometimes think if I wasn't built like a line backer even though I was a girl and almost 6 feet tall with size 12 [now size 13] feet I would have gotten squashed myself by the lot of them.

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    1. Yes, they didn't respect us enough to even listen. It was like I had no right to anything that was mine even, heck no right to anything that was mine. It was not a safe environment, and I remember when we were very little there was more love between us, more caring. My brother would help me when we were very little. I mean very little. That stopped suddenly though. They became one of the "them". That's when they didn't care, so you are right, he was never a brother to me.

      Expressing myself had gotten so hard, and this brought the most deplorable of men into my life. This was explained to me from my relationship guide how that happens, it was bound to happen, that I had no choice really, so I can say I can blame my brother for a lot of abuse I had encountered later.

      I was told that I was a wimp for not being able to defend myself, but if I tried to defend myself it would be more dangerous. Danmed if you do, damned if you don't, it was a no win situation. I have no room left for fake "hi" anymore either.

      But what we want? We want a real family, not this crap. This pretend stuff, its like why? Do I really want to believe in Santa Clause when there really wasn't one? Do children when they first realize the truth, grieve Santa? I don't know.

      Yes, it would be nice to have that "nice supportive family". I authentically want it too. But I can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear. Yep.

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    2. Yes there is no respect, mine see me as a stupid worm. Even my brother laughed at me as I cussed him out and made sure to stick to NM's biddings. Yeah you were not in a safe environment. Mine wasn't either. I remember even love between my sister when we were very young too. Before my mother destroyed that. Some even existed into our pre-teens. This is why I feel like I had a sister who actually died. {She died spiritually}

      Yes she became one of "them". One of the coldest human beings on earth. I realized too my brother and sister never helped me or even cared I was sick, even as I did all that worrying over my brother, my life had been in danger just as much but no one came to my bedside.

      They do set people up for troubled relationships later. I'm scared to talk to people lately, because of so much betrayals. So much pain to hide? You ever feel that way? I don't get to be a normal person with the poverty and extreme body. One even abused me for feeling like an "outcast" Well why the hell wouldn't I feel like an outcast? I am and was.

      I learned to mouth back but even then it never helped me. Doesn't help to mouth back to people who simply don't care and hold all the worldly cards like cash. They just laugh at you or ignore you. Defending myself it got more dangerous too, I got stabbed in the back or the smear campaigns got ratched up. Even some of the betrayers, all it took was one, "I don't agree" and you were their arch-enemy for life. One cost me 5 online friends.

      Yes all this pretend crap is a waste of time. It's why I'm walking away. two cousins may have a conscience but they follow the family line, I fear them being corrupted with enough time. Their view of me was "influenced" and they treated me like I was glowing and radioactive.

      Yeah a nice loving supportive family that doesn't exist. I have to face reality, there's nothing there. I don't have the money and ability to fix it either. Yes we can't make something that is not there.

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    3. I think its when we can start to accept our own feelings, that's when we see the truth. My brothers and sisters were mean, but I was only seeing the nice stuff, the random, not happened much, maybe only once stuff. Its hard to go into the feelings, and to tell the truth, sometimes if I could just go parachuting or mountain climbing, would be so much more pleasant. Ohh, the pain of it all, it was really more horrible than I even remembered at first. And people are so much more meaner than we allow ourselves to believe. And we blame ourselves for this?

      And I could never in my whole life hold on to what was mine. It was all taken or ripped away from me. So now, when I try to fight back it feels like I am in fear of my life, and its true, its happened, its been proven to me. I have always stepped back, and allowed everyone to take what they wanted to, it was never meant for me to have what I wanted. So I stopped wanting things, became very down and out, the abuse in my life became so horrid, I went to a therapist who sent me to a psychiatrist who asked me why I used such strong wording. It was like I went through the fire, and for the life of me I could not explain it.

      I could never be part of something, work at a company, or have a good relationship. Or have money. Money was abusing me too. Held over my head like I was a big stinkbomb. I meant nothing to anyone, and in previous relationships took the abuse. What else was I good for anyways?

      But the reality of it all, that we had no family, is like a trickling feeling I have in my body everyday. And I actually don't want anything to do with them, and I am living in this area of my emotions, and I couldn't get my emotions to give a damn about any of them, its strange. How my real authentic emotions actually live in the truth. But never honed out or specific, I have to allow more of the information to seep through. But it will be fine, but its terrifying and horrible to face the truth, but wonderful at the same time, very liberating.

      Thank you for your lovely comments Peeps, the authenticity is truly wonderful. I hope that soon God takes you to a place in your life where you can be comfy and enjoy your life to the fullest of what it is.

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    4. I ignored a lot of meanness for years because there were meaner ones in the way....so sounds like you understand too. I kind of grabbed for whatever crumbs I could get. I have this thing where I close out the "meanness" and don't want to admit it is happening. It happened with the catfisher where I had thoughts like, "she is passive agressive and telling you off" and "how dare she say that" but inside I was thinking "oh I want a friend". Maybe it's better off not to WANT friends, I think sometimes. She said things that blew my mind but ACON me would ignore what was in front of my eyes, it's only when the FIX it and weirdo junk came to such a head I could not ignore things.

      I feel like I always stepped back too. Sure I could be tough if someone was grabbing me around the neck or throwing me down, but the "be nice" stuff really has screwed me over, and the stance of being afraid to "offend" and of "losing people" well if they are mean you never really had one who had your back.


      I always have felt like an outsider too, and jobs, I was okay at the ones where I was left alone but God help me if they judged on personality or "team-work" then my butt was being kicked out the door or becoming the kicking post. Money has abused me too. LOL I have written enough posts on that topic. I am thinking of writing, "Why don't I know how to make money?"
      Yeah I meant nothing to the people I walked away from. I felt so guilty thinking if I did this or that differently maybe one day they'd see me and accept me it was a joke and waste of years and time. I remember being so sick, going to some of the houses, long time in the car being afraid from my lungs, and doing this for people who not once ever came to see me in the hospital. Nope we never had families. Not at all. I do feel freer unloading the false "responsiblity" of trying to communicate with those people or trying to get through to them.

      My real emotions said get away, get away. LOL or I was afraid of them. Thanks regarding the authenticity. I appreciate it Joan, and for your prayers too. I hope I can have a few good years.

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    5. I know it probably feels better when we have real friends. I do talk to some people now in the outside world here, but this ACON stuff they will not be able to connect to, and I can't do anything about that. Kinda makes me feel like the outsider. And dear hubby here, lol, he was love bombed by a "friend". I told him that and he started steering clear of the guy, it was like a Fred Flintstone, "bosom buddy" type thing. Barely knew the guy who came around only when he wanted something. Now they don't talk anymore all over hubby not doing what he was told. I taught him that.

      So it happens to everyone I guess. Regular people can adjust better maybe. And they move on faster. Just for ACONs it can hurt so bad. We need them to love us, for in turn if they love us we are worth something. We bounce back to that over and over, I know I do. It takes a lot of work to get out of that, and I feel that the love at home sure helps, but I have a lot of growing there to do too.

      And yes I think its important to realize that we can lose people, but its in the not losing of ourselves, that's the key. Having the internal resources is almost intangible, and I have to re-establish that one daily. But every morning I wake up, its back to square one, guess I won't get delivered of that one, but at least you would think I would get used to it by now. But I don't.

      Nope never had a family, don't have blonde hair either, kinda have to go with what we were given, and I know it doesn't seem like much. All through my twenty and thirties I don't think I had a real friend. If I did they were chased away by predators who demanded everything I had. This was all due to being raised in the crazy house. That is the part we have to remember.

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    6. Online friends and long distant are great but we need to avoid solitary confinement in day to day life and have some real friends. I know me and husband need some more local ones. We have a few people around us who are friends and who have helped so don't take them for granted. His best friend and one of mine lives about an hour a way and we see him from time to time. With the ACON stuff, I'm going quiet about it with all newbies. I'm old enough for my family to all be deceased especially being childless. So I just let them think I'm an "orphan" or was an "only child" or everyone died out. This happens enough nowadays with people having less children. I wish I had figured out the "normal people aren't going to get it" rule a lot faster. Not that I poured my guts out to the entire world, but even telling "friends" of 3-4 year durations was a giant mistake.

      I'm glad you helped your husband out. I told my husband this one guy only showed up when he wanted something. My husband got stranded and he refused to help him so I said, well now we know. I'm glad I stopped giving him the time of day earlier on. I got massively love bombed by the catfisher. Now Ill listen faster to the feelings of unease.

      The "move on" crowd who seems unbothered by grief or "deeper emotions", I had the thought one morning while deep in thought, even if I feel "deeper" does it make me a "bad person"? They sure seemed intent on making me bad for my inability to throw things off and walk away? I realized the scabs were getting ripped off over and over trying to talk with any who had contact with the narcs. Their jibes and devaluing was just constant reminders.

      I know I kept trying to get people to love me, well if they don't there's no changing it. It makes me sad how I was like a Puppy Dog, please love me, please love me. I'm glad I am free now, that's a burden in this state of health I don't need. I agree about intangible resources. I have to tell myself all the time, "I am enough", and "These people made their decision, it wasn't me".

      Yeah we were born as orphans really. I know the spin of the roulette wheel for me went crazy but I'm not the one who spun it. I'm tired of blaming myself for everything and finally done. Sorry you didn't have a real friend through your 20s and 30s. I had the periods with absolutely no friends in my life too. Some loved friends died in my case. I know I'm getting to the age where you start losing people. I and husband are friends too and I always had him around since I was 25. I know I am lucky to have had an enduring relationship like that around me. Sometimes it shocks me how long we have known each other. I know my N mother chased away good friends, and others who cared about me. The narcs divided all that. It's not my fault my social dance card is kind of empty. I think too well, I had the disabilities too. I know the last few years I was getting more tired unable to keep up. This can affect "friendships" too. Yeah the crazy house is what did it all, yeah we have to see what we had to deal with.

      Nope never had a family, don't have blonde hair either, kinda have to go with what we were given, and I know it doesn't seem like much. All through my twenty and thirties I don't think I had a real friend. If I did they were chased away by predators who demanded everything I had. This was all due to being raised in the crazy house. That is the part we have to remember.

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  2. I have been called aloof, distant, and or standoffish and hard to get to know. I laugh at weird points in a conversation and make inappropriate jokes at the wrong times. As I have grown older I think I got that from my father and seeing him trying to cope with a wife that was criminally insane. I hope this sounds relevant. It's what came to mind. I told you I make inappropriate comments at the wrong time so you can't say I didn't warn you. Maybe I have tried to in congruent all my life so people will just write me off as weird and not hold me too accountable for my words and actions. Maybe I don't really know what normal is anymore. I certainly had no normal people to learn from.

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    1. Its completely the way I am. And I hate that word "standoffish". My ex used to call me that all the time. He tried to make himself sound smart by using that word, and that word "inept". Novelists use that word to write books, but I never heard it in real life except by abusers. And this thing about birthday cards and well wishes, is very hard for me. This is not truly me, this is something I had adapted to for survival though. Um, what is normal? That one still hits me, and when things are all normal, I feel all squirrely inside. I look at normal people and wonder what that is. So I choose to not to try to adapt to being normal, and just mostly focus on reality and truth, authenticity. That was hard enough itself, I can't relate to normal. But thanks Q, this is spot on for me. So relevant. I needed to hear that actually. My mother died and I did the laundry. My brother called and I yelled at him and did my quilting. This is normal.

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    2. I have been called aloof too, how strange....such an odd word, sometimes I'm not sure what it means. If I talked too much I got in trouble. Told by some I overshared and boy I got my butt burned for that with the phony catfisher thinking mutual sharing of problems [her fictional ones were far worse] meant safety. I learned my lesson there. But then on the other hand, I have gone silent feeling so unsafe and like everything is JUDGED and then they yell at you for not talking to them and how dare you be so distant, when they are the ones always slamming doors in your face. I didn't know what was normal either. I have the Aspergers but the normal people always seemed to be laughing smiling and happy about things I could not figure out. They always seemed at ease and like they could be who they were.

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    3. Yeah, why do they get to be who they were? I work on being authentic but I have to keep quiet lots due to being an ACON. I made a joke that was totally unappropriate. Someone in a group was told that so and so knew her family. I said that if someone said they knew my family I would have to run. Wow, did I say that? Yes, I did, and totally inappropriate for the company that was there.

      Hey we will make mistakes, its all about where our heart is at. I heard some people make inappropriate jokes in front of the wrong company and it was all good and they probably could joke like I did about my family and totally get away with it and make everyone laugh. Just I can't.

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    4. Yes its a question I have asked, "Why do they get to be who they are?" Why do I have to be the one censoring and worried. Part of my recovery has been telling myself, that I can do what I want [with the limits of God's commandments and legal lines]. I'm tired of trying to crush myself down into a little ball, to not offend anyone. So I'm intense, if they can't handle it, then there's the door. They don't like what I believe or say, well then there's the door again. LOL Yeah normal people make mistakes, sometimes I ask whose serving as judge and jury on the social mistakes anyway? Workers probably have to try not to lose a job, but you know what I mean.

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    5. Yeah. I think we have to do what we have to. I don't know the social lines, I cross them, then I don't know what to do. I feel stuck. Then we have to love ourselves anyway and accept ourselves for who we are. And that is where we go next when we feel confused. I mean I do. Its hard cause I hate taking those kind of risks then I have to depend on internal resources to sustain me.

      Like in dating situations, you can be very uncomfortable, its ok, but accept that discomfort. Accept all the perceived crappy parts of ourselves, then they will be accepted. And when we do something totally stupid, just have this ability to overlook that, it is not who we are. We are not all our crappy parts, we are all our parts.

      I know this is hard. Someone should have taught us through our childhood that we are alright. But we were taught the opposite. And we just kind of accept that as the truth and the predators line up for it. We don't have to get it right all the time, it is like an artwork, we just do it. My relationship site taught me that and I notice the predators don't line up for me anymore. Actually, I've noticed the few I've been in contact with only stare at me intently. Look me up and down, its like they can sense I was once an easy meal. But when I screw up, bang they are there. But its ok cause I just go back and do the first thing, accept myself.

      So what I'm saying is, sorry love talking about this, been my life, we don't have to worry about offending someone. If we are cheeky, then we are cheeky and others will accept it if we do. I've noticed this to be true. I play around with it. But it has to go deeper than just saying we accept ourselves, that is the trick. I take it deep to an emotional level, but I spin back sometimes.

      But I don't have to go to work and spend 8 hours doing it. It takes everything I have to just do it for a few hours at a time.

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  3. I used to worry I would die and not have somehow fixed my family relationships. As if they were mine to fix..
    Then I read this story of a local woman who died of breast cancer, and one of the things in the article was that she did not make amends with her mother before she died. But everyone seemed to still really love her. That relieved this feeling a little
    I think Christianity makes me feel like I'm bad for not just forgiving them and letting it go.
    It's like all of Christendom leaves out that verse "and if he repent". Plus I think it's talking about brothers in Christ..Anyway, I think that has made me worried about my don't care , cold attitude toward my father dying. Of course he could of cared less when my life was in danger.
    q1605; one of my sisters has this veil up all the time so she always seems so aloof. I think it's because of all the crazy things she witnessed going down in our house and her own abuse by my father.

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    1. No sense in trying to fix it. They don't want it fixed. Maybe they want to abuse us again, that's why they send us messages and phonecalls, to say "I miss you", so that they can have the connection of supply. They don't have the agenda of amends.

      Christianity is good, but the Christians can't connect to certain things that are actually written in the bible. They can only relate to what they know. When they see abuse, they tend to block it. Not that they don't want to see it, I think its because they can't understand. I've heard them talk of abuse at times, and its weird, they can see it, but they can't really articulate what is going on.

      I think a lot of us don't care when someone dies in the "family". For me it was just another day, and if I felt like dancing that day, it was only for exercising, not for joy. It meant so little to me.

      Oh wow, aren't they just so clueless about the "repent" part? And don't they know that if we try to make amends it will only cause more abuse from them, more sin on them? I know I'm not a cold person, just some adaptations that I have, some "fleas" if I may explain it that way. We are anything but cold. In fact, I think we have to be fiery hot to even awake to the reality of it all.

      Your sister may have been gaslighted so much that she can't see anymore the truth. It is easy to get lost in it. And we sometimes dull our feelings to the point that we are not happy, we are not sad, we are neutral. And this is not living. But it can be easier. We all have to wake up, unfortunately, I believe that it is only a small percentage of us that actually do.

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    2. All the false forgiveness in Christianity has done a number on us. I feel most of the Christian world lives in this fantasy land world that would never measure up. Yesterday I had a conversation with my husband about the pastor at the church I left last year and I said, "he preached if you do God's will, God will bless you [in this world] I said what about all those people being tied to the stake and lit on fire?" I'm going to this Christian seminar, tommorow I got to once a year, even one of my old therapists is supposed to be at it. I know there will be some bones to spit out but even as I keep meet up with a lot of the local church Christians I think they live these very protected and sheltered lives. I feel guilty for these kind of thoughts but then think they seem happier. So many don't want to face the reality of what this world is like. I think apostles getting the snot beat out of them definitely had to. We had no choice but to wake up to survive. People today in American culture are really into living fantasties, if you think about it half of people's lives is lived in fiction in tv, movie or video games.

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    3. What always gets to me is that they think God is going to save this city or country, and God is making a move in the united states, and I'll tell you what this means to me. It means they want things to go on as they are and they don't care about anything else. Or the people who get hurt by it, they don't care about. Just yeah, they want money like God invented the money system we have and he didn't, but they don't care about it. Only to have money to brag about, not this prosperity thing. Means that God loves you more, its crap.

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    4. I don't believe in USA as a Christian nation fantasy tales. Some seem to think American means they are a Super-Christian, and the rest of the world can go stuff it, or something like that. Maybe that's why they think it's okay that various nations get blown up and war is good or something like that. They certainly don't care about the poor, or those in prison or vulnerable members of society. I feel the pews are full of the self congratulatory. God blessed me! I know I'm not perfect but people who believe in this system and claim they are Christians, there is a disconnect there.

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    5. I agree. They are very full of themselves. And, rather spacey to tell the truth. They are not real people, just those who want money. It doesn't connect to God.

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  4. My narc sister once said I was an evil little girl. I was so hurt I cried. I watched this big smile come over her face. She was delighted she had hurt me. Years later I realized it wasn't me that was evil it was her. She once tried to drive me through the windshield on purpose. She was so abusive to me even in highschool when your to old for sibling rivalry.
    Plus, who gets delighted after hurting someones feelings...

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    1. That is sad, yeah that is something narcs will say. My N GC sister actually said to me once, "you will never get married, you are not pretty enough" and told me once, "my voice was like a monotone and "everyone hates you". That is sad she was abusive in high school. The narcs love unloading pain, they get total enjoyment off of it.

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  5. Oh, she once said she hated me because I could show love and affection. Who hates someone for that...

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    1. Ohhhhh, I was called evil so much that I thought I was. This allowed others to walk all over me. For I felt that I was needing to please. If someone delights in your hurt, RUN. Always just run. Of course they always hate us for having humanity. That what they are after, they want to trample it. I had this narc friend once who freaked when I shared her my feelings, and then I became a carefully programmed robot to only respond or say what was pleasing to her. What the HELL was I doing?

      Your sister is no sister so sorry to say, or should I be sorry to say that?

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    2. They hate people who can feel and love because they can't in their darkened hearts. I have to let go of the feeling to please. Drop kicking all these jerks to the curb is a new thing for me. Oh I know that robot mode so well. Even with the catfisher, she said a few things that pissed me off or I knew was immediately a lie, why didn't I say something right then? I have asked myself what the hell was I doing too? My life rule to refuse all FIX-IT QUEENS, is what ended things. Stand up for yourself and they will leave the room anyhow.

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  6. She is no sister. I've only said pleasing things to friends for years. Once I started saying what I felt and needed, almost all of them fled. What a bunch of narcs...

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    1. Ha ha when I told my brother to get lost recently, he just said ok. Didn't even ask me what was wrong, big chicken.

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    2. Wow story of my life. Anon, I've gotten rid of 5-6 "friends" in the last two years on one "friendship" of 30 years duration. NC was three years ago. I even left a group because I felt ignored. Why not"? It's my energy there isnt much of it.

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  7. It takes more than blood to make people "family", be that father, mother or brother and sister.
    Q is more like a brother to me than the NGC. I've never even met Q but I can pour out my feelings to him without fear they'll be judged, repeated or used against me and he knows that works both ways.
    BTW The insurance company has to pay out to the beneficiary and if that's you there's no way for anyone to steal it. You just have to notify the company and provide a copy of the death certificate. They even pay interest on the time between the death and when you get the cheque.

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    1. I agree about Q, he is more like a brother to me too then my real one.

      Agree about "family". If people hate you and seek to destroy you, they aren't your family. My DNA connections are in question but even if you share DNA with them it doesnt matter.

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    2. I am shocked that you guys never met. It seems like you all have coffee together daily. Hey, I guess you do.

      Thank you Mulderfan, that helps me to feel better. That is my compensation for losing everything. I am so grateful to Q and everyone here. Gosh to talk about these things that I talk about, the outside world would lock me up.

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    3. We have coffee together, laugh, cry, swear and exchange inappropriate jokes. I've invited him North to escape Trump but he doesn't like igloos and Mounties, eh. Ooops sorry if I hurt your feelings Q, but I'll get Justin to hug you and give you fee medical care.

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    4. I am grateful to Q too.

      Hey I may interested in an offer to go north to escape Trump. I consider Canadians very fortunate, this place seems to be hanging on the edge of some crazed abyss, with our joke of an election in full swing.

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    5. I've already offered to adopt Q but he has to move fast before WE build a wall to keep Trump out!

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    6. I don't know if we are very fortunate, but compared to Trump at least Justin is nice to look at. But I want to go to Texas cause I'm cold.

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  8. I agree. Just because someone is blood, it does not make them family.
    You can also totally destroy all the love between you and another person. I believe most people in my family have pretty much done that for me. When I was talking to my father recently and he ended the conversation with "I love you";I was thinking and feeling how absolutely hollow that sounded. I thought; isn't that an action word? Very little action going on there..You can say it all you want. That doesn't make it true..

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    1. As kids we couldn't even go out to put the garbage at the curb without telling my parents we loved them and kissing them both. This was especially true if outsiders were there to see it. Just part of the "happy family" show and we all had an assigned role to play. Meaningless scripted garbage that just rolls of their tongues and ours too because we were too damn conditioned to break outta our roles.
      Last time the old man talked to me he accused me of everything short of murder. If I hadn't hung up, he would have ended the call with "luv you"!

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    2. Oh for sure. We didn't do that, but there was this admiration for those who hit you and soul murder you, for they are paying you mind afterall. Omg, it sounds like my family are all pimps.

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  9. Would you believe me if I told you I look like Brad Pitt and have the charm of George Clooney. I can't seem to beat the narcs so I might as well join them!

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    1. Q,There's the thing about having an authentic friendship. I don't know or care who you look like...unless it's Fox Mulder...then I would care! Oh, and Nicholas Cage...yeah, I'd care about that too.

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  10. Wow, I thought my mother was bad. She was so into the "happy family" show. But never wanted any kisses...
    She once sent me a picture of myself at 5 yrs. old, and wrote" Happy girl" on the back! She was going to prove I was happy even if I wasn't!
    And that was one of the few pictures I ever got. I have been denied the family photos,because I won't tow the family narrative. Now I only want one. Me when I was little with my loved dog jumping up and trying to eat my long braids!So cute. I'll never get it. I loved that dog. I think she was the only really loved member of that family. My brother said he was shocked at how many photos there were of my parents with drinks in there hands. I'm like, you just figured that out. My father is a raving alcoholic.

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  11. You can't fix people that don't think they are broken. You can't get apologies from people that don't feel they did anything wrong. They are perfect and you don't tamper with perfection. People tell us that they just need therapy. Any person that suggested therapy to my mother ended up dead or banished soon after.

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    1. Mine always told me I needed therapists. In my NC letter I counterblocked her shrill "You need therapy" and wrote, "The therapists told me to walk".

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  12. Yes! My mother loathes therapy..She also doesn't want anyone else in it. They might tell her secrets...

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    1. Pigs would be flying and hell would be freezing over before my mother would step foot in a therapist's office.

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  13. My mother did not like it when she found out I was in therapy. I can say that it wasn't one of her most delicate moments.

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  14. Looking back through this thread I'm tempted to generalize and say all ACoNs are likely standoffish or aloof because in our families anything you shared was used against you at some point. There were times, like after my husband died, I poured my heart out to the NGC and now stuff I shared is constantly thrown back in my face. With our track records of betrayal by our "loved ones" this may explain why many of us only have a small circle of trusted friends.

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    1. I think you touched on the importance of NC. If we try to be in LC even we go back living the same life with them, never being able to change and they won't let us change and they don't change. I think I like being standoffish for to me it means at least I won't get killed. How the heck am I to stand up for myself when death looms? To go back now and make nice means that I will not be ok, not in my soul or mind. When I acknowledged that brother was wrong, he was out of line, gives me the comfort of at least the beginning of being able to heal from it. I was the youngest, the others were always hitting me, that is not family. Hitting me when they were adults even. That is wrong.

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    2. As for those who preach forgiveness in those situations, and they say that forgiveness is required for healing. Well, forgiveness means that you are to forget all about the matter, that is what forgiveness means in the biblical sense. But it is important for me to remember what happened if I am to move forward, and make a better life. At least I can say now that I know why I am like this. And try to go in a more positive direction. Hey, maybe some of my nerves can calm down now, and I can relax. At least it is a step up. But I can apply the stuff I learned much more easily now. I don't know, certain things seemed capped off for me before, but in dredging up all this pain, I see that I was in some kind of fog before. Thus, I must never forget.

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    3. Forgiveness "may" be given at the discretion of the person who was harmed, but only AFTER the following has taken place:
      *A sincere apology is received
      *Amends are made
      *Behaviour changes
      *Behaviour in never repeated

      In other words: If you're dealing with a narcissist, forgiveness is not an option.

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    4. For those Christians among us. Here is how my dear friend Rev Renee Pittelli explains things:
      When Jesus forgave the adulteress in John Chapter 8, he said, "Go, and sin no more."
      He did not say, "OK, I forgive you this time, now go right back to what you were doing wrong, and every time you do more evil, just come on back and I'll forgive you again." In order to merit forgiveness, CHANGE (repentance) is required. A sincere apology and the changing of one's hurtful ways, along with a little time, is often all it takes to restore trust in a damaged or lost relationship. Normal folks have no problem smoothing things over, making amends for an offense, or being remorseful for hurting someone who loves them, especially if it means staying on good terms and keeping the relationship intact.
      It seems so simple. And it’s the only way possible to restore the damaged bond. So why the abuser’s extreme reluctance to do it?
      Abusers and control freaks love having the upper hand. Humbling themselves to sincerely apologize is rarely something they’re willing to do, much less committing to a change in behavior. That would require effort on their parts, and the sad truth is, to them, we’re just not worth that effort.

      Here Renee's website: http://www.luke173ministries.org/

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    5. Thank you MF. I want to copy this paragraph right here from her site. I don't think I have to post the link for you already did that for me. Thank you. But this paragraph I find so valuable for me. I'm supposing for others here as well, just the acknowledgement of the fear of it, helps me a lot.

      Having been raised to be people pleasers, brainwashed into feeling unworthy of love, caring or consideration, and indoctrinated into sacrificing for our relatives while burying our own needs and feelings, we have precious little experience in setting limits on the behavior of others. Defining our boundaries, protecting ourselves, informing our abusers what we will and will not tolerate, enforcing consequences for offensive behavior, and standing up to evil does not come naturally. At first, it feels very alien, and we find that we have to force ourselves to go beyond our comfort zone to do it. But in time, with some practice and the glorious grace of God, setting limits on our abusers will come more easily. And one day, it will be second nature, and we will be able to do it without feeling anxious or guilty.

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    6. IF THE HEAD OF THE HOUSE HAS BEEN CALLED BEELZEBUB, HOW MUCH MORE THE MEMBERS OF HIS HOUSEHOLD!.... Matthew 10:25

      I think that one speaks directly of my mother and her children. She didn't have to hit me, she trained the rest to do it for her. Last copying I do, I swear.

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    7. Wow on the Matt 10:25 verse. Yes Renee's website helped me a lot with that forgiveness issue. It doesn't mean sit there and continue to be abused. There's the verses in the Bible about "departure".

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  15. How do you deal with the" forgive 7 x 70" crowd?

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    1. I don't deal with them Anon. I walk away. Same as I walk away from "they're your parents", "they're old" or "they're family".
      If you're not comfortable with just walking away, try, "It's too painful for me to talk about." then walk away.

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    2. Some mean well but are theologically still drinking the lukewarm milk instead of eating the meat of the Word. They cut off the REPENT part, and it does a disservice to so many. I don't deal with it either. I'm keeping quiet about family with newbies and even new acquaintances and this rule will extend to new friends. People don't understand this experience of pure evil. They had more normal relatives. JADE seems to be helping me a lot. I'm more quiet but getting in less fixes with people.

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    3. Its strange they have to go to disaster centres, like hurricane villages, or tsunamis ravaged places, or war-torn countries so that they can connect to any pain. That is strange to me. They go there for something like a couple of days, and they are freaked right out, thinking they are all whole now for being exposed to the pain and suffering. We don't need that, we lived it.

      But what is it about the repent part they don't get? In the beginning, I admit I told a couple, a very solid christian couple and I thought they were going to take a baseball bat to me when I mentioned it.

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  16. Because some narc will sometimes say they are sorry. They don't usually mean it, but I've had an occasional at least semi sincere apology from a lesser narc on the continuum.

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    1. Anon, Here in Canada we call that Moose Poop, because we're too polite to say Bull Shit.

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    2. LOL yes the less severe ones will fake an apology, those entering sociopath land apologize to NO ONE. Well thats their attitude. They may apologize in court if they slip up and get caught but it'd be a giant moose dung heap.

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  17. We are to rebuke them for their behaviour, its a must actually, but I don't think this means ever expecting them to apologize, and from my experience, it is dangerous, you're going to pay for it. Best thing to do is get out while the getting out is good.

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  18. Part of my aloofness comes from listening to my mother and father talking trash about people that weren't around. I didn't know better so if my mother said we were a cut above other people it must be the truth or else she wouldn't say so. It took me till I was up in my twenties to realize that we and I were not all that. She had me turned into a holier than thou gossip machine until I was old enough to think for myself and realize there was nothing special about me. Or nothing any more special than any one else.

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    1. Holy crap, Q! My parents trashed talked EVERYONE they ever met or were related to.In the last few months my mum's life both of my parents did nothing but trash talk the NGC but, by then, I was smart enough to know they were and always had talked trash about me too. The old man even said, "He's dead to me." in reference to the NGC and I've have absolutely no doubt I'm "dead" to him too.

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  19. When I was a little kid I walked right up to an aunt and asked her why she was a prostitute. Gee wonder where I got that from. But I got called the big mouth in the family, be careful what you say in front of Joan, she'll just go an repeat it. Such crazy formative years I had. Until I met you guys on here I thought I was the only one who went through this.

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  20. My mother always says "oh, I shouldn't have told you that".Then why did you. It drove me crazy..

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  21. Anonymous we are the family blabbermouths and got tormented for it. The family whistleblowers, thus scapegoats that must be kept quiet.

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  22. I am actually feeling tormented right now because my brother told me I would feel "redeemed", if I went to see my dying father. A father who totally abused me and doesn't care anything about me..How come I'm the one who is going to be redeemed. What does that even mean? I know it's wrong but it is really bugging me and triggering me..

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  23. Joan, you are not the one who needs redemption. Guilt trips are just another form of emotional abuse. Kick your brother to the curb with the rest of the garbage!

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  24. Yeah, cause I don't know what these things are. Demons wrapped in skin, there is no use in trying to even pretend to care. What use is there in my brother, as a big grown up man hit me so hard at the age of 15. What is that thing? I remember the whole family even egging him on to do it, "teach that bitch a lesson". I left that part out, I remembered it, I don't know why I didn't include it. There was only my mother who feebly tried to stop it. She didn't want blood on her hands, plain and simple, this wasn't about caring about me. Big tough man, yeah, I believe he was trained by mother to be mean to me, in turn his wife took over controlling him. He is an adult unable to make his own decisions. And I wash them out of my life.

    You don't need redeeming, this is the games they play. Your brother is not your friend. I remember Olie Mathews saying that, they are not our friends, when they tell you to do that. Please don't let it trigger you, things trigger me too, not so much anymore. If you haven't yet please read Narcissists Suck from Anna Valerious. You won't be sorry you did.

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  25. Anonymous! are you the anonymous that is commenting on my blog? Keep'em coming. You certainly gave me new stuff to think about. I have about ran out of crap that is about my mother. But you got me thinking. Which a neat trick considering my mother left me dead from the neck up.

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  26. I'm "standoffish" too. It's pretty closely tied to my social anxiety. Most of the times in my life when I've gotten burned, it's been when I was kindly and friendly and it attracted someone who needed supply.

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    1. If people find me standoffish I figure it's because I have trust issues. Who wouldn't when their own parents and siblings have spent a lifetime using them as a doormat? Fuck 'em!

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  27. It is what it is. I don't blame myself for being standoffish. I just do the best I can realizing most people would not have survived the torment. I don't worry too much about it, it just makes it worse, and I don't try to cope with it either. Its just living and breathing.

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